Author Topic: James McIntosh, East Lothian Cavalry 1794.  (Read 9085 times)

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McInOvingham

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James McIntosh, East Lothian Cavalry 1794.
« on: March 16, 2008, 02:07:45 PM »
Dear Fellow Searchers,

My great, great, great grandfather James McIntosh born c. 1769, St Cuthbert's, Edinburgh married Isabella Nisbet born c.1773 whilst in the East Lothian Cavalry in 1794.

However I have been unable to find either sets of parents or confirm James's service record.  They had the following children, all born/christened at St Cuthbert's, Edinburn:-

James born 11 September 1807
David born 20 September 1809
William born 25 April 1812 and
Jean Brown born 14 March 1816.

I can trace my branch of the family back to William who unfortunately died in Morningside Asylum in Edinburgh in 1859.  I have William's case notes, he was a baker and the only family mentioned is a wife and 2 children.  His wife, Janet/Jessie and children David born 1841 and Christine born 1847 moved to Newcastle upon Tyne.

I have been unable to trace James's sons, James and David but a Jean Brown McIntosh married Robert Roycroft in Edinburgh in 1837.  Robert was born in Carlow, Ireland 1798. 

The Roycroft Family appeared in the Edinburgh 1841 Census records with children Isabella born 1840 and Mary born 1826 (previous marriage?).

The family next surfaced in New Zealand where they had at least 1 other child, namely William Frederick Roycroft born 31 July 1849 in Auckland, N.Z.  He married Annie Smith 20 June 1883 and had a child Annie Roycroft born 18 August 1885.  She later married Edward Ishmael Pemberton in 1906.

Isabella Roycroft born in Edinburgh, presumably named after her Grandmother, married Thomas Rusden in Auckland,N.Z. in 1862 and had the following children,  Thomas Henry Rusden born 1865 and Arthur Julian Rusden born 1874.

Can anyone please provide any information on James McIntosh sometime soldier/gentleman servant and his family or confirm the recently discovered family link with the Roycroft, Pemberton and Rusden families in New Zealand?

Incidentally the Family Search records for New Zealand are excellent.

Thank you in anticipation.

Regards
Gordon McIntosh (1325)

DCGrassick

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Re: James McIntosh, East Lothian Cavalry 1794.
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2008, 02:51:41 PM »
Hi Gordon,

There is some additional information about Jean Brown Roycroft's children on the RootsWeb site (I've put the email address at the end of this post).  According to the information there, Jean was born in Glasgow, so there may be some early records of the two missing brothers in that city in or after 1816 (if the relocation was not just a short trip). However, her marriage was in St Cuthburts (they have in 1938 not 37), so that only gives a window of 20-odd years that the family may have been in Glasgow before returning to Edinburgh. (But at least there are a couple of Glasgow censuses you can look in.) The children of Jean and Robert Roycroft are listed as follows:

 Margaret ROYCROFT b: 1840 in Edinburgh, Scotland
 Annie ROYCROFT b: 1840
 Isabella ROYCROFT b: 1841 in Edinburgh, Scotland
 Willaim Fredrick ROYCROFT b: 30 Jul 1849 in Howick
 John Archibald I ROYCROFT b: 16 Feb 1851 in Howick
 James David ROYCROFT b: 23 Aug 1852 in Howick
 Jane ROYCROFT b: 31 Jan 1854 in Howick
 John Archibald II ROYCROFT b: 1857 in Auckland

and there are further links from some of these (I didn't investigate each link further). Here is the web address:

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2553310&id=I38

Hope this helps!
Regards, Dawn


McInOvingham

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Re: James McIntosh, East Lothian Cavalry 1794.
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2008, 11:22:41 AM »
Hi Dawn,

What can I say, you have certainly advanced my researches.  Many thanks for the info and the Roots link.

Having recently found the N.Z. connections this confirms them.  However the Sandringham connection came out of the blue and is very intriguing and it should be easy to follow up.

It is also puzzling where Jean's middle name (i.e. Brown) came from.  Whilst I have been researching my family history for many years I am a complete novice at Forums so I hope I have replied in the correct place.

Many thanks again.  Good luck with your researches and Happy Easter.

Regards, Gordon.


DCGrassick

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Re: James McIntosh, East Lothian Cavalry 1794.
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2008, 09:46:39 AM »
Hi Gordon,

You are most welcome.  The 'Brown' was most probably a grandmother's maiden name (which would narrow it down to a McIntosh married to a Brown or a Nisbit married to a Brown). You might like to try the www.ancestry.co.uk website, which has quite a lot of good information and various free Community boards (under different family names).  Have a lovely Easter.
Regards, Dawn

McInOvingham

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Re: James McIntosh, East Lothian Cavalry 1794.
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2008, 03:17:08 PM »
Hi Dawn,
Thanks for the additional suggestions. I've now connected a Roycroft via your Roots link and learned that Robert Roycroft and his wife and family emigrated to NZ in 1847 on board the Minerva and settled in Howick.  He was a Fencible ex the 42nd Foot. All of which is news to me.
Thanks again.

Regards Gordon

Joankb

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Re: James McIntosh, East Lothian Cavalry 1794.
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2008, 10:32:39 AM »
Hi Gordon

I'm delighted to find you, as we share our great great great grandfather James McIntosh. I'm descended from Robert Roycroft and Jean Brown (Jane) McIntosh through their second daughter, Margaret Forsman, then through her daughter Jessie Roberts to my mother Gladys Utting. Though I provided the material you're finding, I advise you to use it cautiously, as disproved information Robert Roycroft's ancestry is included.

Several New Zealand descendants have shared their research, to which you are welcome. We have photos, including one of Jane in old age. I have lots of loose ends for the McIntosh family, and look forward to comparing notes with you. I think James's family came to Edinburgh from Blair Atholl. James is listed as a 'gentleman's gentleman'.

Joan


McInOvingham

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Re: James McIntosh, East Lothian Cavalry 1794.
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2008, 03:10:49 PM »
Thanks to Joan(NZ) I now have a 50 page Saga of the Roycroft Dynasty starting from Robert Roycroft (a Waterloo & Fencible Veteran) & his wife Jean Brown Roycroft nee McIntosh.  However Joan suggests that James the Cavalryman's Grandfather & Grandmother were Lachlan & Majorie Robertson and his Father & Mother were Duncan McIntosh & Janet Stuart of Blair Atholl

Their children were :- Donald b.1758, Ann b.1760, Margaret b.1760, Elizabeth b. 1762, Lauchlane b.1762, Duncan b. 1765,  James ,the Cavalryman, b. 1768, & Elizabeth b. 1773
Has anyone researched this family?
Regards Gordon McIntosh

McInOvingham

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Re: James McIntosh, East Lothian Cavalry 1794.
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2009, 11:03:52 AM »
Joan, one of my new found relatives in N.Z., has suggested the following forebears for James, the elusive Cavalry Man.

1. James's parents were:  William McIntosh and Elizabeth Robertson.  Issues were:  William (born 1761, Dalkeith); Bruce (born 1763, Dalkeith); Elizabeth (born 1764, Dalkeith); Euphemia (born 1768, Edinburgh);James (born 1772, Portsburgh) and Mary (born 1776, Edinburgh).  Note:  A lot of family moves - military background perhaps, like James?

2.  William's parents were:  John McIntosh and Mary Liddle.  Issues were: (all born in South Leith) Margaret (born 1731); James (born 1733); John (born 1735); Robert (born 1737); William (born 1739); Barbara (born 1741) and Mary (born 1744).

3.  John's parents were:  John McIntosh and Jean Brown.  Issues were: (all born in the Parish of St Cuthbert's, Edinburgh) John (born 1706); Ann (born 1709); and Rachel (born 1711).  Note:  Possible origin of Jean Brown McIntosh's middle name, but note this Jean Brown was born in 1675.

4.  John's parents were:  Duncan McIntosh and Jean Brisbane.  Issues were:  (mostly born in Edinburgh Parish) William (born 1673); Laughlane (born 1678); Mary (born 1680); Jean (born 1681); John (born 1684); Alexander (born 1688) and Robert (born 1694). 

Quite an impressive tentative family tree you must agree.  Has anyone else come across any of these McIntoshs?  Incidentally they are all in the I.G.I.

Regards

Gordon McIntosh

McInOvingham

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Re: James McIntosh, East Lothian Cavalry 1794.
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2011, 02:45:33 PM »


I thought an update on James McIntosh the Cavalry Man was in order especially as progress has been made.

The Roycroft Group, descendents of Robert Roycroft and Jean Brown McIntosh, of which I am a member, now numbers 19, most of these are in NZ, and I’ve recently met a descendent from NZ whilst she was holidaying in the UK.

About the same time as I discovered the NZ link via Jean Brown McIntosh, I found a James McIntosh living with his mother Isabella at Craigleith Cottage in Edinburgh.  Could this be Jean’s brother James, son of the Cavalry Man?

This James McIntosh later became Quarry Master and he lived with his wife Elizabeth Brown at Ramsay Cottage with their children :- Margaret b. 1834, Isabella b. 1837, John b. 1840, Elizabeth b. 1843, Mary Brown b. 1846, and Jemima b. 1850.  I learned later that Ramsay  Cottage is still in existence.  As the age of James and his mother seemed to fit I was convinced I had found relatives.

I even found in the IGI John the son of James and Elizabeth, together with his wife strangely named Stewart Clark McLaren, and their five children living at Blairgowrie.  They even named a child Elizabeth Brown McIntosh McIntosh

I discovered on the internet a Craigleith Quarry site and corresponded with the Author. The stone from this quarry had been used to build many prestigious buildings in the past.  I learned that a retail park now occupies the filled in Quarry site.

I felt certain that a Manager of a stone quarry would have a Tomb Stone.  I eventually found James McIntosh’s Death Notice and much later his place of burial in Dene Cemetery Edinburgh.

This I eventually visited only to find that on the fine obelisk type tomb stone James’ mother’s name was stated to be Wallace and not Nisbet. 

However it was not all wasted research as a few years down the line I have been contacted by a true descendent of the Quarry Master. (Jemima’s Grand Daughter).  I have been able to pass on my Research including photographs of the tombstone which is covered in family details.

On a more positive note in November 2010 I visited the Record Offices at Kew and explored the East Lothian Muster Rolls ( WD 13/3759 & 3760).  These 200 year old documents covered the period 1794 - 1800 and sure enough James McIntosh ( My Ancestor ?) is featured many times in Major Alexander’s Troop under the overall command of Colonel John Hamilton.

However there were several anomalies :-
For the period 25 June to 24 December 1795 James is registered as absent with “Brechin” in the Reasons Column.
For the period 25 January to 24 February he is listed as “On Command”.
For the period February to May 1799 he is declared to be “sick” and on the 1st May he was “Discharged”.

If the Brechin mentioned refers to the town in Angus, then this is the first time it has occurred in my Family Tree.  According to the IGI McIntosh’s are in evidence in the area for the period in question and they use familar  christian names.

I am told the term “On Command” appears to suggest that James was not a career soldier.

Finally the time of James’ discharge is earlier than expected and well before the birth of their first child in 1807.

I wonder if I am following another false trail?

Regards  Gordon McIntosh